gg. rematch soon.

break said on 2006-05-16 17:49:57 . Email: None 71.119.204.***

def ur a pussy shut up. u been playin quake for years and u aint even good. dont try to talk shit. lets just settle it at the next qcon.. ill box u with gloves if your 2 scared to fight me like a man.
we can even take bets for the winner so you wont feel like your getting your gettin your ass beat for nothing.
-


HAHHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

everyone knows I dont like def and he dont like me, and yeah we will fight whatever. but how long do u want to talk shit for? shits over with, just leave it.

break you're such an idiot, you say to stop with the shit talking but you always start it and you always continue it.

what sens?

:)

8.5inches / 360

it's like a size 15 in the mouth!!!, i luvz it.

damn def0r, i thought my sens was low ;<...

after watching both this demo, and the demo vs the drunk kovakk is it quite obvious, break should stick to div 3/4 =)...

that frag where u walk behind him, i almost pissed my pants.

should have used axe there :( def giving too much respect to breakdown :o

There?s no way to compare break?s level with def?s. def?s is definitely higher.

About the game def is in quite nice shape, just lost some important red armors but he can work on that, nice movement and very aggressive.

8/10 game.

im rating this game an 1/10 because i dont like to watch rape demos :]

in this case def >>>>>>>>>>> breakdown.

Break's excuse is that div1 players have been playing for far longer than him. Hypothetically he believes that if he played as long he'd be div1 too. There's a couple reasons why having this logic doesn't add up.

1.) EVOLUTION CREATES A HIGHER STANDARD OF PLAY - QW has been an evolution. Gradually every few years the style and skill level of the game dramatically improves. For instance a map like ztricks comes out that is populated among all the servers. This map helped upgrade everyones skill level to do speed jumps and bunny hops better and easily. When povdmm4 became standardized for dmm4 mode, aim efficiency increased. Similarly player strategies evolved and the science of employing these newly founded modernized techniques quickly became common knowledge. The ch-tv demo database makes sure of that. The term "evolution" implies slow, gradual change. Break coming in a year ago from netquake, joined the QW scene during the height of its evolvement when many gradual changes in the game have led to numerous revolutions in the skill standard. The expectancy of ones skill level in order to compete well is far beyond what it used to be for these reasons.

2.) FEWER PLAYERS MEANS LESS COMPETITION - As time presses on, there are fewer and fewers players making it easier to get big-headed as a newcomer. For example if there are only 10 players in the quake scene and you can beat 6 of them that means there are only 4 players ahead of you. Multiply that number by 100, and if you are 600th out of 1000 players, then, suddenly you don't feel so big anymore. There's 400 people still ahead of you!

3.) TIME ONLY EQUALS EXPERIENCE AND EVERYONES EXPERIENCE GOES UP EQUALLY - By the time someone like Break has played as long as the div1 players, div1 players will have played that time plus the time break has. div1 players are not div1 because of an inability to evolve at this game. If that were true most active div1 players of 3-4 years ago would be getting owned today by many other players who do have a capacity and aptitude to evolve their game.

The only hope Break has in hoping to catching up with the "time-played" of div1 players is if they quit for a couple years.

4.) PROGRESS IS LESS APPARENT THE HIGHER THE SKILL LEVEL - I made an argument in another thread, that from an outsiders point of view, an ambitious newcomers progress would be far more apparent than a div1's player. I would like to point out that this is not to say a div1's progress isn't equally as qualitative in how much they are improving overall as a player. While the newcomer is quickly improving their game by learning bunnyhops, many new strats, and improving their lg aim from %20 upwards to %30-40 eff, etc, the div1 players are increasing their abilities to time control of maps, stealth procedures, counters, team play along with many of the other finer elements of the game. For example it's much easier and faster to improve your lg eff from 20% to %30 then going from %50 to %60. These types of finer developments are generally more gradual and not as apparent to lower level on-lookers.

5.) EXPERIENCE IS GOING TO BE MORE VALUABLE IF YOU HAVE A GAME PLAN - "Time-played" is also not what seperates the winners from the losers. We know this because there are other players who have played equally as long as the top players who are not div1. The amount of time you do something does add to your experience level, but this is also heavily qualified by your attitude, your ability to learn (whether you're a quick learner or not), long term commitment and dedication versus being an off and on player, your ability to get along and learn from others as well as your eagerness and sureness to prove yourself (aka confidence). Your time is going to be far better spent if you have a game plan than if you just play for the sheer sport of it.

4.) RIGHT ATTITUDE, RIGHT MIND, RIGHT REFLEXES - There's other qualities as well that could be tossed into the mix, like genetics, having a sense of logistics, being critically minded, a good nervous system to allow fast reflexes between the eyes, hands and brain. Although equally valid I tend to think that these _other_ qualities as being somewhat intangible towards making comparisons with. I also think of these as qualities that can be compensated for by having a strong combination of other qualities.

Here we have a recipe that extends far beyond just experience. It's also key to remember that experience is heavily qualified by how you approach the game. Are you maximizing the time you spend playing or are you just riding off the cheap thrill-kills of n00bs?

I never really took qw serious. I just play for fun. I know the game better then you think. Don't forget I've been playin netquake since it came out. I know more shit then you think. Once I get my movement and aim down its over. All this shit talk is funny, I might just have to try now.

oneshot who do u think is div1 in na?

In my mind there are two types of div1 players. The div1 teamplayer and div1 dueller. On average if you are one, you are usually the other, but not always.

::The div1 dueller::
This is not a 1 or 2 map wonder. This player can hold their own against the best on all 5 of the accepted duel maps (dm2, dm4, dm6, aw, ztndm3) and are usually well-versed in a few of the alternative maps as well. The div1 will have a couple of maps they are extremely familiar with and average far more wins to losses against div2 players on most of the 5 maps.

::The div1 teamplayer::
This is someone any clan would be happy to have on their team. A player that is stealthy, times powerups, a good quad runner, is effective at using and reading binds, has good use and effeciency with all the weapons and employs advanced tactics to strengthen his team and weaken the enemy's. I say "good" Quad Runner, although this guy will be able to play well in any position. Quad running is still important because if the player who is running Quad is not around, then you will have to get it as fallback. Usually this type of player is also a high-scorer. It's easy to discern a div1 teamplayer because they play with the best because they are among the best.

I'm not completely familiar with all of NA's active and semi-active players ability to perform on all maps and in both duels and team-games. If I had to make a best guess list, this is what it would be:

::Active NA Div1 Duellers::
Kovaak, Def, Myth, Cyan, Immy

::Active NA Div1 Teamplayers::
Kovaak, Def, Myth, Cyan, Slik, Ult, fayD

::Semi-Active NA Div1 Duellers::
fiend, yogic

::Semi-Active NA Div1 Teamplayers::
fiend, yogic, blakbeard

-Note: there's likely to be quite a few more semi-active players but they are bordering on inactive at this point

damn a short answer would of been cool. mother fucker writing novels and shit.. first, no sane in div1?? second I really dont care about teamplay, we all know boss and ag is the best. There's like no active clans in na for teamplay. Clans just get thrown together for tourneys. Cant beat a team thats been together for that many years. I dont have anything against that, good for them. fayd aint active btw. also semi active fiend? he dont ever play anymore. Its funny how u mentioned him cause I played him not to long ago and smashed him. He isnt div1 anymore. and silk div1 teamplay????????? PA PA PA PLZZZZZZZZZ. cant be div1 when u dont show up for ur matches. There honestly aint that many good duelers, kinda sad.

I'd like to see immy play sane. Immy thinks he's better but I dunno. Be a good match.

Semi-Active meaning they have popped up time to time with their tag in the course of the past 12 months. Just because Slik is a royal dick does not change his TP skill although I'll concede that I was having trouble convincing myself that he is infact div1 TP material.

The following are also fairly inactive players who have had their moments. These are players who feel that they already had their day, or play casually and subsequently fall into my "off and on" category where they have solid experience, div1 potential, well rounded with all the maps but are too busy in their personal lives or other interests that they can't commit to taking their games to a truly competitive level.

-1, animalboy, bulldozer, devious, slik, gellehsak, goonter, jackal, squeeze, thump4

Get a column on QW.US, Besmella or ESR. ;o

Oh, and WTF Fayd is div1 TP but not duel...

I must agree that FayD is in the wrong category. If he were to be anywhere, it would be duel. It's arguable that he even belongs there. He does not TP, and therefore is not div1 TPer, but I would argue that he is not even div1 dueler, except for maybe on aerowalk.

Fair enough. I'm actually in the dark as far as FayD is concerned beyond that I know he plays TP with Kovaak. I know Kovaak to be div1 material. I also have spectated a few games with FayD and Kovaak teamed-up in 2on2. This is obviously not enough to qualify FayD as a div1 but as I already pointed out I'm not totally current with all the NA players in all situations and in all maps so this was merely a _best guess_

I also understand FayD to be somewhat of a newcomer and in hindsight I'd have to say it's highly probable that FayD has a ways to go before being div1 in duels or TP. Sorry, my mistake.

If you consider Fiend and Yogic as "semi active" you might as well add Thresh and Unholy into your list.

I explained what I meant by semi-active in post #19. Players who every year or so show up and play I consider to be semi-active. They may only play through the course of a month, or even a week or two but they still take time out of each year to play.

Thresh and unholy haven't played Quake1 for like 7 or 8 years. In late 2002 - to march of 2003 there's lots of games of you and yogic playing 2on2 together.

There's a demo of Fiend on this site from 06/04/2005 and there's a few of yogic from over the course of that past few years.

Without intending to offend you, comparing yogic and fiend to thresh and unholy is a terrible comparison. Did unholy even ever play Quakeworld?

02/02/06 kovaak yogic mvd dm6 QW 1v1 0 72
02/01/06 def Yogic mvd dm2 dm4 dm6 QW 1v1 8 146
01/22/06 yogic tOpvillyn mvd dm6 QW 1v1 5 221
01/11/05 DEF YOGIC ANIMALBOY SLIK MVD ZTNDM3 DM4 QW 2v2 0 75
03/14/04 yogic KovaaK MVD dm6 QW 1v1 0 101
03/14/04 yogic KovaaK MVD dm4 QW 1v1 1 71
03/14/04 yogic KovaaK MVD aerowalk QW 1v1 0 65
03/14/04 yogic Urgefor MVD dm4 QW 1v1 0 17
03/14/04 yogic Urgefor MVD aerowalk QW 1v1 0 22
01/13/04 Armageddon Yogic MVD DM6 QW 1v1 0 48
08/01/03 yogic def MVD DM4 QW 1v1 1 107
03/15/03 DEF and Yogic AnimalBoy and Slik MVD dm6 QW 1v2 5 69
03/15/03 yogic&def animal&dmx MVD DM2 QW 2v2 0 49
03/07/03 def&yogic dmx&animalboy MVD DM6 QW 2v2 0 109
02/03/03 Yogic Def Slik Animal MVD DM2 QW 2v2 0 69
02/03/03 Yogic Def Slik Animal MVD DM6 QW 2v2 3 90
02/03/03 def&yogic slik&anm def DM6 QW 2v2 3 208
09/20/02 def & yogic slik & nayc MVD dm6 QW 2v2 13 117
09/18/02 yogic&def slik&cyan def dm6 QW 2v2 2 94
09/18/02 yogic&def slik&cyan def dm2 QW 2v2 7 98
07/16/02 def yogic MVD dm6 QW 1v1 24 662
02/12/02 AG XB yogic a2 QW 2v2 5 100


06/04/05 FienD thump4 skitter cyan MVD dm6 QW 2v2 7 72
05/14/04 Thump4 & FienD ZeRo4 & Goonter converted MVD dm6 QW 2v2 9 675
03/16/04 FienD KovaaK MVD SHOUTCASTED DM4 QW 1v1 0 101
03/16/04 FienD KovaaK MVD SHOUTCASTED Aerowalk QW 1v1 0 60
03/16/04 FienD KovaaK MVD SHOUTCASTED DM6 QW 1v1 0 69
03/15/04 def FienD MVD SHOUTCASTED DM6 QW 1v1 2 594
03/15/04 def FienD MVD SHOUTCASTED DM4 QW 1v1 0 361
03/15/04 def FienD MVD SHOUTCASTED aerowalk QW 1v1 3 322
03/14/04 Thump4 FienD MVD dm4 QW 1v1 2 69
03/14/04 Thump4 FienD MVD dm6 QW 1v1 0 49
03/14/04 gellehsak FienD MVD SHOUTCASTED dm6 QW 1v1 0 64
12/19/02 FienD ZephyruS MVD dm6 QW 1v1 2 98
12/19/02 FienD ZephyruS MVD dm4 QW 1v1 4 72
07/31/02 Grunk Fiend MVD dm4 QW 1v1 2 31
12/02/01 AG XB Fiend dm3 QW 4v4 1 207
10/31/01 Clan Crossbones American Gangsters Fiend DM3 QW 4v4 0 134
05/02/01 EG XX Fiend dm3 QW 4v4 0 353
02/05/01 EG XX Fiend dm6 QW 4v4 1 251

Yogic and Fiend quit in 2004 indefinitely. The dates you are looking at are only the dates that the filenames were last touched (ie. renamed).

Of which I anticipated, I had the foresight to check the matchkey dates:

01/11/05 DEF YOGIC ANIMALBOY SLIK MVD ZTNDM3 DM4 QW 2v2 0 75
-matchkey is from 2006

01/22/06 yogic tOpvillyn mvd dm6 QW 1v1 5 221
-matchkey is from 2005

06/04/05 FienD thump4 skitter cyan MVD dm6 QW 2v2 7 72
-matchkey is from end of 2004 (month of november)

I also saw Fiend playing on ASE early of 2005. Breakdown said he played Fiend recently of 2006.

Why string me along, why wouldn't you just come out and say right off (post #24), "Yogic and Fiend quit in 2004 indefinitely." so we don't have to back and forth like this.

Clearly yogic did not _indefinitely_ quit of 2004, the matchkeys of those demos I referenced prove that. It's not that I don't believe they at one time told you that but the evidence proves contrary to your statement.

::Correction:: (damn you copy & paste)

01/22/06 yogic tOpvillyn mvd dm6 QW 1v1 5 221
-matchkey is from 2006

01/11/05 DEF YOGIC ANIMALBOY SLIK MVD ZTNDM3 DM4 QW 2v2 0 75
-matchkey is from 2005

"Breakdown said he played Fiend recently of 2006."
You believe him? ;p

I believe Fiend has played a few times here and there and shown that he can still be a top player, so I'll agree with you on that.

Yogic, however, I disagree. Any time you see him playing, I'd argue it is likely a fakenick. He's simply too busy to be playing, and I'm fairly certain he doesn't even like the game anymore.

Well the (def & yogic) _vs_ (animalboy & slik) game of _2005_ would be very difficult to argue it was anyone else, granted it was early, only january 11th of 2005.

The (yogic) _vs_ (tOpvillyn) of _2006_, the only other person who plays like that is def. Phil even had this to say:

Demo Archive: #30495

[Quote]
3. phil on 2006-01-22 16:22:57 . Email: None 68.175.93.***

a lot of the moves yogic uses here are typical to def's game actually and it might be def aliasing (or it might be yogic, and its just they emulate each other having played together for so long)
[End Quote]

Anyways, I just felt it necessary that I made a case for my assertions (even if they're only best guesses) are not drawn from thin air. I already had made the mistake of putting FayD in my _Div1_ list ;p

Btw, the person I saw playing as Fiend in 2005 went by _Rapier_

Demo Archive: #28946

[Quote]
7. phil on 2005-06-06 16:01:00 . Email: None 146.95.148.***

(he aliases as "rapier" now)
[End Quote]

I guess I should point out the key thing about phil's quote from my comment above is to pay careful attention that phil made that assertion as late as _June 06, of 2005_

word

I think FayD should be a top dueler. Give him 2 duels on ANY map, the third he will beat you. He is a machine like no other. If he trys, he wins. Even if you get the "good spawns" and land your shots, its his game when he wants it to be.

Immy and ANM: both very good, recently I have not seen them duel. But in the past they were both fast and accurate. The only things you need to be in most maps.

Bane/Kaichi: is probably the most improving player around. I think he will be the one to beat in a couple months if he plays regularly. He was improving SO MUCH then sorta leveled off recently. Maybe its the small ping advantage I have over him but he could be a better dueler. I hope he takes a break from teh fast play, learns the duel to win strategies and places top 5 maybe top 3 in a tournment. He deserves it and he looks like he has the form.

pg: has always been a good player reguardless of his ping. But now with his low ping he repetively tops the score boards. He refuses dueling, which sadly limits his ability to learn some really really important qw strategies, but he is extremeely effective with all weapons in teamplay. Look for him to be a star if 4on4 is ever rebirthed. hes already a 2on2 star.

---
oneshotflinch do what everyone wants you to do and get a column on qw.us!!!!! I would read that any day! It also gives me an excuse to read long posts. In comments I expect a quick 5-10 sentances tops. Your comments deserve to be looked at, they will when you get your column!

Peace

its not an assertion its a fact that was his nick and he rapiered :(